Sued in emergency medicine? Turn it into a career pivot. In this episode of Telemedicine Talks, hosts Phoebe Gutierrez and Dr. Leo Damasco chats with PA Christopher Cannell about his journey from clinical roles in EM, ortho, and critical care to expert witness work, consulting, and education, plus tips on navigating malpractice, building side gigs, and AI in med-legal risks.
Ever wondered how a lawsuit could launch a thriving consulting career?
In this episode of Telemedicine Talks, hosts Phoebe Gutierrez and Dr. Leo Damasco sits down with Christopher Cannell, as he shares his path from bedside clinician to nationally recognized medical-legal expert, starting with a malpractice suit he won due to his preparation and poise as a witness. He explains how attorneys seek thorough, credible experts who understand standard of care from multiple angles, and how his diverse experience allows him to opine on cases across specialties.
The discussion covers building a consulting business through word-of-mouth, mentoring via his Healthcare Hub community, and teaching as a full-time professor. Chris highlights the value of humility, networking, and learning from mentors; the role of PAs in legal medicine; and upcoming talks on dissecting malpractice cases and AI risks at the AAPA conference. He emphasizes preventing errors through education, creating better systems for patients and providers, and embracing entrepreneurship, offering insights for clinicians eyeing side gigs or career shifts in telemedicine and beyond.
Three Actionable Takeaways:
About the Show:
Telemedicine Talks explores the evolving world of digital health, helping physicians navigate new opportunities, regulatory challenges, and career transitions in telemedicine.
About the Guest
Christopher Cannell is a seasoned physician assistant with over 22 years in emergency medicine, orthopedics, critical care, and internal medicine. A medical-legal expert, he turned a malpractice lawsuit into a consulting career, providing witness services, risk mitigation, and education. As president of PAs in Legal Medicine and a full-time professor, he mentors via his Healthcare Hub community.
Email: chris@theapcconsultant.com
Websites : theapcconsultant.mykajabi.com
https://www.theapcconsultant.com
About the Hosts:
[00:00:00]
Hey everybody. Welcome back to telemedicine Talks. As always we have Phoebe Gutierrez, your host and your co-host leader Masco. We have an awesome guest today. We have Christopher Cannell.
He is a doctor trained physician assistant with experience in emergency medicine, ortho critical care and internal medicine, but now also nationally recognized in the medical legal field and in the healthcare consultant field with more than 22 years of multidisciplinary clinical and leadership experience.
he works at the intersection of medicine, law, and education and provides clear, objective, impactful solutions that can help organizations and legal teams navigate. Through the complex healthcare matters, mitigate risks and improve outcomes. We are super stoked to have you. We've never really talked about kind of this medical, legal healthcare, kind of opportunities and it's gonna be kind of interesting to be able to delve into that.
So Chris, thank you so much for joining us and taking your time. Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate the opportunity today. [00:01:00] Yeah, this is a question that we've talked about. We need a new question, but we're gonna start with this old question. So, you know, doing what you're doing now and in your journey, you know, is this always what you wanted to do?
You know, reach back to kind of like your first grade self . Is this what you wanted to do? Did you wanna be a pa and work in this field? Or did you have something bigger, better, cooler plans for yourself? Yeah, I I knew coming outta high school I wanted to get into healthcare.
I didn't really know, what it was, I thought I wanted to become a physical therapist at the time. I wasn't sure. My sister unfortunately had, you know, a childhood cancer that really, affected me and my journey and sort of where I wanted to be in life. And, you know, thankfully she turned out well.
but that sort of, the travels into New York City. For us as a family, growing up in New Jersey for her cancer care really sort of changed me. You know, and I went through college as a pre-med track. Wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. eventually sort of got exposed to the PA field and thought, you know, Hey, this sounds like a good option for [00:02:00] me.
You know, was taking out a lot of loans for school. I'm like, I don't want to take out enough loans, you know, for medical school. And, so I just felt like, Hey, let's try it. So I went to PA school right outta undergraduate, moved up to Boston. about five days after I graduated college and, started PA school and, yeah.
So it's been quite the journey going on almost 23 years now. And, you know where I'm at now, I'm not sure I would ever have imagined I would've gotten here. Yeah. So it looks like, you know, you've been in a lot of different kind of specialties, right? Em, ortho critical care, internal medicine, you know, and now you find yourself, you know, not necessarily at bedside.
Right. So how, well, I'm still working clinically. Yeah. what specialty were you doing? Yeah, so I spent most of my career working in emergency medicine and I've worn lots of other different hats to moonlight. Started out my career in orthopedic surgery and then, I'm still actually moonlighting in orthopedic surgery, but.
I've actually dropped down clinically now to working part-time so I can, [00:03:00] work in education. I'm a full-time professor now, And then, I work clinically and then the rest of my work is done with the consulting work. Yeah. tell us a lot about this consulting work.
What do you do and, how'd you get into it? Yeah, I can put it pretty simple. I got sued. So, there's no real magic way, I got into it. was just working as a pa and, unfortunately working at the highest risk field there is, which is emergency medicine, and I got sued and I won.
And I won because I was a good witness. I was well prepared, I was professional. I was tactful. I resonated with the jury and the attorneys that I worked with they loved working with me so much so that they hired me to be an expert. And so that's how I got into it. You I made you know, a bad situation and turn into what appears to be a, great career alternative now for me.
And I've really used that experience to really help others. As well as the, the consulting work that I do. So I've now, I've also turned it into an [00:04:00] educational experience with, my assistant professor work. what a story. That's a crazy story, man. Talk about, you know, turning lemonade from lemons.
Not a lot of people could say that. Right. so what about that? Right. You know, honestly, a lot of us, I'm in the, emergency medicine field as well. Right. And it's just part of the job. Right. It's part of the job that Yeah. You know, get ready for that lawsuit. Shoot. What's that? the most recent like, episode of the pit.
Right. Talked about that too. Right. the majority of us are going to get sued, Honestly, I've been in a couple depositions I've been on the witness stand, not for my suit, but as a witness and whatnot. I've never even called back. I guess I wasn't that resonating or that magnetic of a personality.
So like what are they looking for I think, you know, it's definitely a viable option to get into right? As, as a side gig, or even if you try to make it your main gig. What are people looking for? how do you get into that? Like, you know, you, there's obviously something that the lawyers saw and was like, Hey, this is gonna be a good guy, for us to use.[00:05:00]
What are kind of the traits that they're looking for or the approaches that you could share? Yeah, I think they want to see someone who's well prepared. Someone who really knows the medicine, who understands the standard of care. who's really able to, really dissect the case and look at it from all angles and understand it, not just from the provider's angle, but look at it from the nurse's angle, the patient's angle.
And, don't try to play Monday morning quarterback. Just try to focus on, you know, a prospective evaluation of the case. And I think, you know, they want someone who can stand up to a plaintiff attorney or a defense attorney who's trying to attack you or disparate you from, and look at your credibility.
And I was able to stand up to that. I've been able to demonstrate my, professionalism to, stand pat with my beliefs and understanding of the case and the facts of the case. and not everybody can do that. Not everybody can withstand that onslaught, that you cannot, while in the middle of a deposition.
But you know, I've been able to do that. and I [00:06:00] really look at every single case in very explicit detail. I'm very thorough with my research on the evidence, you know, scouring all the literature. and when you work in clinical practice. And you really try to perfect your skill.
you know, I have an advanced credential in emergency medicine. I've done lots of, different types of training and, educational events and mentoring and teaching. so the more you sort of hone yourself as a subject matter expert the better chance you are able to get case after case.
The attorneys really, they talk to each other and they want it's word of mouth, a lot of it. So to get further cases is a great way to approach it by sort of, you know, being that professional and getting repeat business. Now do they tap you for certain kind of cases, like specifically em, ortho cases or is it just kind of across the board, you know?
Yeah, so being a PA is kind of funny. In the sense that, you know, it depends on the state. The overwhelming majority of work I do is emergency medicine, which has been my specialty since 2005. But I also opine on [00:07:00] some orthopedic cases I've opined on internal medicine cases.
and again, depends on the state. I just opined on a family medicine, a primary care case. you know, and that's the reason why I've worn so many hats 'cause you know, working in all these different specialties, it allows me that experience and exposure. and allows me to be a great expert.
'Cause I do understand, you know, medicine all the way from the outpatient sector all the way to the ICU. And so, you know, being a PA is special in that regard. But you know, it just depends on the state. 'Cause as a PA our license allows us to work in different specialties. Yeah, yeah. No, definitely.
I know the PA there are some, you know, specialist kind of certification or residencies, but yeah, you definitely the ability to jump across the board. I have many friends that have done that, you know, started from the EM side and we've gone to the inpatient dark side or vice versa, you know what I mean?
So, yeah. No, absolutely. And now from this, you've created just kind of an educational piece, right? And a [00:08:00] mentoring piece and a consultant piece. Is that correct? Yeah. So, I'm the current president of PAs and Legal Medicine. and really our goal is to, work on our mission is really focus on risk mitigation, trying to.
You know, work with students work with other colleagues, really expand awareness of what we do and try to sort of get into like, you know, in-house work as well. But in addition to that you know, my goal also, expanding my knowledge as a 'cause I got extra credentialing to become a certified medical professional legal consultant.
and then working with law, you know, different law firms and in-house work, but also working with medical liability, companies but also on the doctorate side. So I'm the assistant professor within a doctorate program and working on the different healthcare law principles for the students as well.
And then lastly, there's an opportunity that I've now created, which is a masterclass. Trying to teach other, clinicians how to do this work so that they can be, become successful. I think we're all looking for greater wellness and diversity of income within our lives.
And my own [00:09:00] personal story I don't think working full-time in medicine anymore. Is great for anyone. I think there's just so much burnout and because of the operational nonsense and the billing nonsense, the insurance nonsense, the administrative nonsense I think the best path for any of us who work in medicine is to diversify our income.
and it really keeps us fresh and keeps us coming back from more. And really, you know, the whole reason we went in the medicine is to help patients. Well, sometimes that gets lost. Yeah. And so my goal with the masterclass is to give other clinicians, you know, another form of income so that they can have improved wellness, have, have a little bit more control over their schedule have more family time.
So. You know, going back, that's a common theme with, a lot of the guests and actually what we talk about personally too. Right. I totally agree. It's a different world out there, right? You've been practicing for 22 years, yeah. You and I probably went in the same time and, you know,
I feel like that old cod, you know what I mean, sitting in the front porch. My knee hurts when the weather moves. It does, by the way. it really does. It hurts right [00:10:00] now. But it's different, right? It's different. the expectations are different. The logistics are different and, you know, I never really thought that I would get burnt out the way I got burnt out.
It was just kind of, you hit a wall, right? And you're just like, what do I do now? You know, COVID definitely helped speed up that process, right? Oh yeah. But yeah, it's trying to find a different alternative, like how is your jump? A lot of people, it, one of the biggest speed bumps is to make that jump, right?
We've learned so much. how many hours? Clinician hours, you know, bedside really didactic, really just drilled into us that, you know, this is what you're gonna do. clinical medicine, blah, blah, blah, can be bedside. But nobody's ever really taught us to think beyond the box.
At least I haven't. Maybe I missed that class. I don't know. I missed a bunch of classes. But, you know, like how was that for you and I guess, that realization that, this is possible because you're, going down an alternative path, and not necessarily alternative, but a different path, [00:11:00] but it sounds like it's very positive for you, right?
It's very fulfilling for you. how is that mindset kind of switch that you taken? It's scary. you don't know how you're gonna go about it. Like We're not trained in business, we're not trained in entrepreneurship. We're not trained on taxes. We're not trained on how to open up an LLC or you know, how to track our spending or, how to organize, how to work business associate agreement or you know, how to create documents in a space where that's HIPAA compliant.
you have to learn all this stuff along the way. and you also have to learn how to be an expert. You have to learn, the healthcare law principles it's a definite learning curve and you know, it's scary. And it wasn't until like. The last several years where I've been able to really elevate what I do.
Just because, it was tough to find that balance working full-time clinically. And then do that work. You know, at one point I hired a va, didn't really work out. Now I have another VA and I really found a system that works. Best for me. And, you know, I, have, great you know, software [00:12:00] that really works.
I found free ways to run my business with very little overheadways to submit invoices, you know, work with an attorney. So it's a learning curve and it's a learning process, and. It takes time to build your clients. It takes time to build that skillset. But eventually, like I was able to do it, you know, over six figures, just doing it part-time.
And I'm like, holy crap. Like this created a whole new world for me that I can now work clinically, part-time I can now teach, which is really what I enjoy doing, you know, and really make a lasting impact on others. So. it really has opened up tremendous doors for me. but it took a while.
It took a long time to find that balance. Yeah. Yeah. No, it sounds like now you know you're working 'cause you want to Right. Instead of like, oh, I have to work because I have to. Right. you're doing things that you want to be doing Right. That's amazing. It's amazing.
Yeah. And it's doing it on your terms and it takes a long [00:13:00] time and it's not always this linear line for people and sometimes it just finds you like opportunities find you. But the best way to do that is just network, to be holistic and be organic and just be kind and nice and self-serving to other people.
'cause it will pay itself back. That's a good point. And it's kind of lost sometimes, you know what I mean? Definitely lost sometimes in that. I totally agree. I totally believe in the whole karma situation, right? you're gonna get what you put out there.
And honestly, sometimes, you've seen some people that are very successful, you know, putting it out there, but they put it out there with vitrol or you know, negativity, it's gonna come back so. I really like that point that you just made. It's just, hey, you know, there's different ways to do things, but I think most successful people that I've found are the ones that are like that, you know, that have kept that in mind.
So, yeah. And to Chris's point, I think one of the interesting things is like. I think very often, and you know, I talk a lot about this on the podcast, but clinicians [00:14:00] specifically are very set in process of like, if I follow these steps, I'm gonna, you know, do these things. And to Chris's point, like sometimes it's like, it's those weird.
Life happenings that kind of open your eyes and get you to experience something different that you're like, oh, this is actually kind of interesting. I say clinicians and lawyers have the most in common of like the professions. But you guys just don't speak the same language and like once with those people.
Yeah. So Chris can talk to it because it's like, now he speaks that language. it's an interesting thing if you kind of just like open your eyes and are, you know, open to the different opportunities that you could take on. Yeah. I think it's sort of like when people, I also feel like people, when they look at the work that I do, they think, like, I'm going to the dark side, right?
Working as an expert. Oh, I'm going against the colleague. It's sort of like, you going in to work for like the pharmaceutical company or the, you know, the biotech giants and it's really not true. like I'm actually contributing to better quality of care. and improved safety.
I [00:15:00] don't look at it in the way that, you know, I'm going against somebody. all I'm doing is reviewing a chart. That's all I'm doing. I'm reviewing a chart for the standard of care, and I have nothing to do with the outcome. All I do is comment on the standard of care.
And if people can understand that and realize that they really like, Hey, like I've made more money doing this than anything I can ever do clinically. and you know, you have to understand like, that's just the process. But hope I truly believe I'm contributing to a better quality healthcare system because of the work that I do.
Yeah. That's a very common concern or criticism of this line of work. Right. So that Yeah. you're the expert witness and I don't know, you know, either for the plaintiff or defendant, who knows, right. But A lot of times, and, you know, I joke about it.
One disclaimer, I love my legal team and the legal people I work with always love you guys. Thank you for keeping me clean. And these are all jokes, but you've kind of hit on that argument, you're furthering patient care as long as you stick with standard of care, [00:16:00] but like, have you had people come up to you and just be like.
Hey, what are you doing? why are you working with the lawyers and, can you delve deeper into that? You kind of mentioned it, but tell us more about how that approach is. is it pretty common that you kind of get that criticism?
Yeah, I think people sort of like, they look at it and say, oh, like you're going against a colleague, I'm like, I'm not going against a colleague. all I'm asking to do is review a chart, you know, the situation is what the situation is.
I have nothing to do with that situation. I'm an expert just as like, just as you two are experts at what you do, and when it comes to a case, you know, they wanna expert to review the case. And I think if you really focus on that. Principle, like then I think people have a better understanding of it.
And, and when you talk about sort of, your ability to sort of generate a side hustle or a side income from it, I think that they're opened their eyes a little bit more because I definitely have changed people's views when they thought about it. Like I've had others who are just steadfast about it and that's fine.
It's not for everyone. But I think, you know, at least sort of be open to the idea that, it's [00:17:00] more than just a side hustle. it's now created different career trajectory for me. So I think people just need to be open, you know, open to the possibility that there are other options out there besides bedsides clinical medicine.
Yeah. And tell us more about this, consultant firm that basically kind of grew out of this, right. Now you've created a consultant firm, the a PC consultant. Tell, tell us more about that and what, what you're doing there. Yeah. So you know, slowly but surely I'm trying to grow it. You know, my planas it exists right now is that we're gonna continue to sort of try to find experts for attorneys, try to invest those experts by doing a proper training class for them and working with them and really having a good eye on, what a good expert is.
And then. In addition to that training, so getting a good database of experts to then be able to provide to attorneys and market them for them to attorneys, and then. my other work is, try to create a better professional hub for, colleagues. So, you know, I have a partner page where I sort of advertise [00:18:00] for, colleagues that really I trust and do a great job and I think would be incredible resources out there for whatever, entrepreneurship that you're looking for.
But, you know, just try to create like a good professional hub for colleagues. And then one of my biggest passions that I'm hoping to sort of move forward with in the coming years is, the work I do with like, on entrepreneurship, which is the healthcare disruptors arm of the a PC consultant.
So, you know, I've now been granted you know, teaching, a healthcare entrepreneurship class. I'm creating a curriculum through my, program where I teach 'cause I really want to send. You know not just PAs in the field, but other providers out in the field to really disrupt the healthcare system that, 'cause we know it's not working for patients, it's not working for us.
And if we can disrupt the healthcare system and identify what are the root problems of the healthcare system? And then help people, you know, from a regulatory standpoint, from a legal standpoint, from a funding standpoint, from a growth standpoint. all those areas for them to grow their own entrepreneurship and then, you know, get into telemedicine, get into, you [00:19:00] know, behavioral health with telemedicine or their own, you know, brick and mortar clinic or concierge medicine, whatever it is they want to get into, because patients need access to care and the current system is just not, doing that for patients.
So that's one of my biggest passions is. How can we solve this healthcare system? if I'm gonna have a lasting impact, tell my grandkids one day, you know, what their grandfather did. To me how can I change the healthcare system, make it work for people better?
No, that's amazing. It's amazing. And this is through all kind of the different arms of your program here. and, you know, it all started with doing the expert work. It, allowed me to have greater flexibility and time. 'cause the being a professor is online and it allows me to sort of, but I'm not stuck in a 12 hour shift in an er.
And, you know, I can't do anything. I'm just there seeing patients. Right. And, there's a lot of rigidness to it. But now I have more flexible time for my family, my kids, my wife works in medicine and so it's been a very tough ride for us because. You know, we work opposite shifts and we don't see [00:20:00] each other and it's very stressful.
And it's very tough, difficult for couples to navigate that. So you know, this has been a, a blessing. Yeah, no, I totally get it. You know, kind of the same boat, you know, found different avenues and gone through the entrepreneurial space, but wouldn't have had even thought about it.
Right. If it wasn't for the freedom that it granted, you know what I mean? Again, it's Thursday. I would've been stuck in a shift right now. You know, my shifts were, you know, Tuesday , Thursdays and, at nighttime. And I get it. it's nice to be able to branch out and really think outside the box and that just gives you the freedom to be creative.
So, yeah, this me and you wouldn't be talking if there weren't for that, to be honest. So it's amazing. when you think outside the box and What's great is like I'm involved in so many different communities, like so many different circle communities, you know, just really connecting with other disruptors and other healthcare, providers.
So physicians, therapists, nurses, CRNAs, whoever it may be. Like, we're, all [00:21:00] just seeking the same thing. And if we can sort of work together and, you know, network with one another, like, like great things happening. So like I've just found myself in so many these different communities and I've just made so many great friends and so many great opportunities and you never know what's gonna happen or blossom from it.
Yeah, no, agreed. And I think, I were part of that community that's how we met in the first place. Right. And I think we both share kind of the sentiment that, yeah. I think it's key, right? Finding the right community and finding the right. Sense of, family is huge.
' cause then you could definitely bounce things off each Other. I dunno. PB What do you think? No, I,completely agree. I mean, I think it's really funny 'cause I feel like I found my community with, Doctors and physician associates. So it's this interesting, like I'm the odd man out, but again, I do the compliance and the kind of like the, more legally side of trying to help people understand that.
But I think it's really important and I [00:22:00] think that's sometimes what's missing is you work in a larger system. Everybody is so focused on, this is my role, this is my job, type of a thing. When you take a step out and you do it for yourself,we do become a family.
It's not so much about the money, it's about the happiness and the joy and the flexibility and the learning. like I love that I get to like, reach out to my PA friends and be like. What's this rash? and it's not about who's gonna sue me or that's gonna be $80 for a consult. It's like we're just trying to help each other because like we've all grown into our own little areas of expertise and it's nice to get to flex those muscles.
And, I don't know. I'm a lifelong learner, so for me it's the fun thing of getting to interact with people that are smarter and more trained in other ways is that I get to learn something new every single day. Yeah, I mean, Phoebe, you were present for the panel last year that we did at the A EPA conference, and I'm sure when you were sitting up on that stage with me, you saw the crowd's impact of what we were saying and [00:23:00] what we were doing, that people had tears in their eyes that the pain was real, the burnout was real, and that actually has forever changed me.
Like that opened my eyes. To what people have endured, what people are going through and what the system is doing to them as providers. And so, I think what we're doing is gonna have a huge impact for all these individuals and how they can sort of find, what works for them.
for me it was medical legal consulting and, you know, that's opened the door to all these other possibilities. So I'm sure you had that same feeling that giving people that opportunity, that education, that ability to, sit that permission to potentially search that, to investigate like what would work for them?
what are their passions? What are they interested in pursuing? Sometimes you just need that permission or that awareness to pursue that. And I think number one to sit through. Those types of events, but also like surrounding yourself with others that who, feel similarly.
And, I [00:24:00] found myself when I surrounded myself with negative people, with people who are like complainers and complaining about the system and not really thinking outside the box about how they can improve it wasn't helpful for me. I went down like, to like a dark space in my career, and this is sort of right before COVID.
And I said, I just got sick of it. I just said, I'm gonna do something about this. Like, I need to find a way out and surrounded myself with these types of negative people are not helpful. And so that's when I changed. and I think you gotta find your people.
Yeah. that's a great point. Right. They provide support, but it's another point that you made. it's just like, you go down and find the wrong people, they're just going to lead you down the wrong path. Right. fighting entrepreneurs, finding people that think outside the box, finding people that actually provide solutions.
Right, right. anybody could complain, right? And I tell my kids this, if you come to me with a complaint without a solution, you're just whining. Right? So come to me with hundred percent solution, right? Like If you're just [00:25:00] complaining, you're not part of the solution, you're really just part of the problem.
Right. So, and, a lot of the leadership positions that I've kind of fell into just because of that, I'm not necessarily naturally inclined to go there, but, you know, it's just like, Hey, I can't just sit there and, whine about things without. Trying to change things for better, for worse, what I mean?
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but at least I'm trying to do things. So, no, that's a good point, is yeah, making positive strides or any stride really hopefully it's positive, but making strides to change things is way different than just pointing things out. So no, I like that point that you made, so that's awesome.
absolutely. since I made that change, it's been a whole different trajectory for me. Yeah. No, it sounds like you're so much happier, you're doing things you love, right? you're teaching things, you're creating, you're legacy basically.
Right? Like, it's kind of what a lot of people want. Right. after you go, there's a part of you that's left behind. It's like, Hey, this is, and it just keeps on [00:26:00] going. So that's awesome. It's taken a long time to get to this space, I can tell you. Well, and that's a good point.
what I mean? Like, you've been out, you've been doing this for 22 years. Right. Do you think somebody straight out of PA school or medical school could do this? I don't think so. Right. No, and I don't think they should, right? I mean, like, no, not at all. because number one, you're, not an expert at that point in time, but you have to live, you have to endure, you have to.
understand what it is. I mean, there are plenty of people who don't go into medicine and don't work in the clinical practice that long and decide to go into biotech or whatever it may be, and that's great for them. But like, everybody's on their own trajectory what works for them and what situations they're in.
So think, we all build that path and we all get there different ways. So, for me, I endured a long time and it took,a long time for me to figure out what it looks like now. did you have mentors or people that you leaned on, that you were learning from, yeah.
Yeah. [00:27:00] Right. tell me about how you used that, and how you use different people's experiences to teach you and build your own kind of experiences. Yeah. So from a medical legal standpoint, I leaned on, really the, organization from the president Lee, the gentleman who was doing the work for a very long time, who was the biggest trailblazer in this field for PAs who had a PhD and wrote all different articles and really set the standard for PAs in this space.
So him and I collaborated a long time, and eventually He just said to me, Chris, you need to be president of this organization. And, I was like, I don't know.and I asked my wife, and my wife said, you should do it. You should do it.
And I don't know that it was until then that I embraced it, but he was a mentor for me and still is a mentor for me. and like I've leaned on other people who have like, been entrepreneurs, maybe not even like in this space, but just entrepreneurs in general. I have a running group that I run with and.
I really lean on to lean on them for advice. I really respect them as humans and, [00:28:00] I'm always open to anybody's advice. because, none of us are perfect and we all come from different, backgrounds and paths and, really try to learn from, everybody.
So, you know, I've a couple many physicians, er colleagues that I've learned from. Like, we have the, chief medical officer of my hospital, he's the former ER director. He's had tremendous words of wisdom to me. He is been my own unpaid coach for many years. Like, really respect him, and a lot of the things he's said and, so I take any opportunity to meet with people in any community I'm in as well.
Yeah. it's part of the reason why I love doing this podcast, and talking to different people such as yourselves is, I found the same thing too. It's learning from others. Right. it's not so many years, but despite the many years of experience that I think I have, there's always something that I could learn and take upon.
You know what I mean? And finding people and really I guess having the humility enough to be like, Hey, These people know way better than I do. and you know, not having that hard hit that I have all the time and just going and be like, okay, let me take a step back and listen to their experiences and stuff.
So I [00:29:00] think that's amazing. And now it's funny, right? Like. I talked to my friends that I went through med school with, you know, we're kind of those people now, right? Like, you're that person now, right? Like, you're the person that now people look up to and, nobody really knows when that transition was made.
It's just kind of happened. But I think, keeping an open mind and learning from others is the first step in doing that. absolutely hit the nail on the head there. I think just being respectful of everybody being kind, being courteous. and just being humble and just every step of the way sort of recognizing, every person for, their own subject matter experts in whatever it is that they do.
And I think that just, doesn't matter who it is, just be respectful and you'll learn a lot if you just sort of put your head down I completely agree. I think the one thing that's really interesting to me is like somebody again, who, like I would not traditionally trained, so all of my experience is like hands-on doing it, like making mistakes.
I've made a lot of mistakes and I think it's really interesting because so often. [00:30:00] you hear the new grads that like, were like, oh no, I'm the expert 'cause I have the piece of paper, and it's like, oh, oh no. Yeah, no. Like I always say like, why do doctors have to go through residency? Right?
Like, why do you have to do so much hands-on training before you're actually considered a doctor? Because like, nothing matters until you've actually done it. you've intubated someone well, you could argue even after residency. Yeah. You know your baby doc straight out. Oh, no. Still, still. Totally, totally.
I'm name over. Yeah. you're still not it, man. Yeah. Oh, no, no. it takes many, many, many years of it. That's why it always cracks me up when people are like, can you explain healthcare to me in the next two hours? No, everything that we've done has taken so many years to get to where we're at and imagine how much smarter we're gonna be and you know, more, up to speed in 10 more years of continuing to say yes to all the things that we would traditionally say no to.
it's lived experiences that wisdom comes with that. And I think the older I've gotten, I've [00:31:00] become so much more humble and so much more patient and so much more understanding. it definitely has provided a perspective. Yeah. No, it's amazing how time definitely does that to you Right.
And experience. But, well shoot, we are kind of running out on time. Speaking of which tell us how, people that are interested in what you do and kind of your educational program, your mentoring program the community that you're building, how can they get ahold of you so they could learn more about it?
I think it's interesting and I think it'd be a definite like benefit, value add. Yeah, no problem. Yeah. So, great way to get ahold of me is pretty simple. Chris@theapcconsultant.com is my email address and my website I'm on the Kajabi, software community. So it's the a PC consultant dot my kajabi.com.
And then there you'll see, my masterclass wait list. You'll see, the healthcare hub. You'll see a lot of professional [00:32:00] resources. All the podcasts, I've done a lot of the educational events I've done. A little bit about my bio, my journey, all that type of stuff. So it's certainly a really good resource page that I have an incredible VA that really helps put it together for me.
Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you, Phoebe. any other final questions? Comments? No, just, I am very grateful that you are sharing more about medical consulting because again, I think it's a really interesting opportunity for not just PAs, but you know, physicians out there that are looking to kind of flex a different muscle.
And so to me I think you continuing to talk about it is something that is so needed in this community because Once you understand the right way to do, certain things, it's really hard to do them the wrong way. And so to me it's like the more that you can, build those networks.
And so, thank you for coming on, Chris. Yeah. It's great to see you again absolutely. I'm gonna, are you going this year? Yeah, I'm actually doing two medical legal talks. I'm talking about the basically [00:33:00] dissecting a medical malpractice case.
doing it with another great colleague, who's also a, director at a program. And then I am doing, AI and medical legal risks with ai. So I'm speaking on that topic as well. So and then I'm representing, my two different board of directors that I'm on, two different, organizations.
So yeah, I'll be there and, having lots of fun and down in new Orleans. Yeah, no, you know, I really like this idea of this community in this space. I think, you know, with all the criticism that there is and you know, with medical providers being involved in the medical legal space, creating community that can bounce each other off and creating a standard of care where everybody gets on this phone that, you know, people get on the same page and agree, Hey, we are doing the right thing.
I think, is very forward looking and very positive for kind of what you're doing. So. No, it's just thinking more about it, I was like, oh, what a great idea. So thank you, thank you for sharing if we do it the right way, I mean, medical errors and, we don't have to have providers endure a lawsuit.
And if [00:34:00] patients don't have to suffer or have you know, complications, we create a better system for everybody. yeah, maybe not for the plaintiff's lawyers, but for patients and providers and everywhere else in the system, so. my hope is I can be a small part of solving that.
So Amazing. Thank you for sharing. I appreciate your time. Thank you all for joining. Another awesome insight. Looking forward to seeing everybody back. And Chris, hopefully we could touch base, maybe after the A A PA conference and see what you've learned there and what you do.
We always like following up with guests as well, so. Yeah, absolutely. Reach out. I want you to come back and just talk about ai. That'd be an interesting kind of talk there. Yeah, I'm doing lots of teaching of that in my doctorate program, so I love it.
Shoot. All right. Well, hey, snow an invitation. I take it as a promise for you coming back, so you're stuck now. So, looking forward to getting you back and talking more about it. Sounds great. Have a good one. Awesome. You have a good night. Alright, bye-bye. Bye everyone.